Why not water as fuel?

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Andrew
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Joined: 9 Dec 2009
Why not water as fuel?

It seems we have the answer yet why is there so little discussion on Water as fuel? as these links demonstrate how it works. There are many patents enabling reproduction.

http://www.waterpoweredcar.com/equinox3StanleyMeyer.WMV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S44eRCr-O7o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo6KE6Xg_us

 

 

I would appreciate some constructive input on this serious issue.

 

Regards

Andrew

Kevthefarmer
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Water as Fuel is a Hoax

The reason why there is no discussion is because it's a hoax. In fact it's probably the longest running hoax in the book- and also probably the cause of the first conspiracy theory. I remember as a kid the story going round that "they (but who?) invented an engine that runs on water but the oil companies paid millions to buy the patent so they could suppress it so we all would have to carry on buying their petrol." Tosh. If water had any potential as a fuel then evolution would have found a way to consume its energy naturally within the biosphere where it is exposed to the full range of physical and biochemical processes.
Apart from turbines and waterwheels (not truly a fuel in that case as it is not consumed in the process) the only potential water has as a fuel could be as a source of hydrogen for Hydrogen-Helium nuclear fusion. The best brains in the physics world have been working on this one for years. They did manage to achieve the alchemists dream of turning base metal into gold- at a cost far greater than the value of the gold!- but alas no nuclear fusion. Anyway, even if it was achieved it would be the kind of elite technology that would turn us mere mortals into slaves.
I'm sorry, it's time to stop this kind of what if? dreaming and concentrate on achievable goals such as re-localisation, sustainable resource use and political and economic reform.

Rimu
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Joined: 17 May 2008
Yes. This is my understanding

Yes. This is my understanding of why although I am not a chemist or physicist.

The first law of thermodynamics means that energy cannot be created or destroyed, just changed forms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics#First_law Transforming water into hydrogen and oxygen requires energy, and that is the same amount of energy that you would get if you recombined hydrogen and oxygen (by burning the hydrogen).

There is no free lunch. If there was a free lunch them some bacteria would have stumbled on it millenia ago and reproduced enough to fill the entire biosphere.

It is possible to reduce the amount of energy required to split the water molecule by using special alloys, but in doing so the alloy oxidises and to reuse the (expensive and rare) alloy requires you to de-oxidise it which again requires energy. So the alloy just shifts the energy usage to somewhere else, possibly hiding it long enough that a reasonably convincing prototype water car could be shown to 'work'

Andrew
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Joined: 9 Dec 2009
hoax?

So whom says it is a hoax have you watched this material? can you explain how a patent gets issued when you have to demonstrate that what your patenting works as described?

If his was a Hoax why was NASA talking to him about this technology? why would they go near a hoax?

Why would the NZ Govt talk to this person if it was not credible? have you seen this meeting video?

Why would a meeting of what I believe to be his peers attended the conferenece in Switzerland where the technology and process was explained. have you seen this also?

If it was a hoax then there must be easy answers to the questions above, I hope im not missing something obvious here!

Kevthefarmer
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Easy Answers to Hoax?

Patent applications do not need to be shown to work- The patent office is only interested that the applicant has a process that they own intellectual property for- ie. it is not in the public domain and is not already covered by someone elses patent. The patent offices are full of ideas that dont actually work- you will find a lot of the older ones at a site called www.freepatentsonline.com ??

The apparatus shown must be producing more hydrogen than can be explained by electrolysis alone, A lot of metals except the precious ones (gold etc.) react with water to produce metallic hydroxides and gaseous hydrogen. some, such as sodium and potassium do so spontaneously and violently on contact with water. Others do so only slowly. A few such as aluminium and magnesium react when "bright" and form a coating that prevents further reaction. A lot of metals that don't react cold will react with water in the form of superheated steam. The steam provides heat to accellerate the reaction. This is what would have caused the hydrogen explosions on the japanese reactors.

In my view the apparatus demonstrated is using the high voltage and high frequency to mobilise the molecules on the surface of the metal so they can react quickly with the water, in the same way as the heat in the superheated steam example. probably electrolysis is happening at the same time contributing to the hydrogen production. In any case the electrodes will be used up and will have to be replaced by new metal. if you like, that is were the "extra" energy is coming from- from the energy used to smelt and refine those metals.

Even if this is only a new process for generating a large amount of hydrogen gas quickly from a small amount of metal without using external heat and in a fully controllable manner then it would be patentable and of great interest to the science and technology community, however, it does not represent free energy- merely another way of storing it.

This man does not have peers- he is by his own admission not a scientist so peer review is not an issue.

Hope this covers all your points- do yourself a favour and find something more productive to do with your time rather than clutching at straws about "free energy"- you might like to try gardening- a very useful survival skill!

Andrew
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Joined: 9 Dec 2009
presentation

From my experience Hoaxers don't usually spend significant amount of time stepping people through explanations on how things work as he appears to do here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S44eRCr-O7o so it looks to me quite probable that it will be seen again in the not too distant future as a number of people I expect will be working on this with more understanding of the processes than me and I guess those who don't understand/believe.

Either way the proof will be in the delivery with or without the support of supposed green organisations.

Kevthefarmer
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Don't hold your Breath

Don't hold your breath waiting for this "technology" to come to fruition. Unfortunately, treating technology as a faith-based religion will result in this fantasy of unlimited energy being used as an excuse not to prepare for change and not to behave responsibly with the energy resources that remain to us. It is not only foolish because it defies the law of conservation of energy/mass, which has proved to be immutable throughout all of sciences experiments right down to the minutiae of sub-atomic particle physics, it is also grotesquely irresponsible for individuals to promote this free energy concept as it give believers permission to carry on in their familiar damaging ways and to vilify as "socialists by other means" those who accept resource depletion as a reality that needs to be addressed.. I would draw a parallel with the enthusiasm with which so many people applauded a few "climate change sceptic" scientists against the vast majority of the scientific community.

Rimu
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Joined: 17 May 2008
Andrew, did you read the

Andrew, did you read the wikipedia page about the guy who built that car?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer%27s_water_fuel_cell

especially http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyer%27s_water_fuel_cell#Lawsuit

Andrew
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Joined: 9 Dec 2009
Wikipeadia

Can be useful and on important topics often not
http://www.colinandrews.net/Wikipedia-WhoAreTheseEditors.html

"Wikipedia Woes -
Pending Crisis as Editors Leave in Droves
by Dave Smith
December 26, 2009

Observation: It is difficult to ignore the many complaints which we at the
Thunderbolts Project receive about Wikipedia. The horror stories
circulating recently about the way in which Wikipedia has been taken
over, including experiences we can vouch for ourselves, really do
suggest that the "people's encyclopedia" is moving rapidly toward a
complete breakdown of confidence, particularly on subjects that
challenge common theoretical assumptions or the "consensus" that
underpins orthodox science.
"

Andrew
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Joined: 9 Dec 2009
Memo?

I guess these guys didn't get the memo saying it could not be done :)
http://presscore.ca/2011/?p=1910

Kevthefarmer
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Joined: 28 Dec 2009
TTNZ website visitors scared away?

"That story broke in 2008" yes- and promptly sunk without trace . To try and link it to the Honda FCX Clarity promo with a clumsy paragraph obviously not written by the same author is fraudulent. It is what is known as a "non-sequetor". I note that on the same webpage there is an article claiming that the Japan and Haiti Earthquakes were deliberately triggered by dastardly secret technology called HAARP. Well that just about says it all for the news sources that you favour for your daily information diet.
I come on here to read the thoughts of contributors like Denis Tegg ang James Samuels and to read the reactions of others who can be bothered to think and do research and share their thoughts. Most recently I have noticed an alarming increase in the use of this site for the attempted promotion of cultish ideology and those who who would have us pay money to hear snake-oil salesmen tell us how to tune in to "cosmic vibrations" and so-on. Let me tell you something- this nonsense is poisoning the TTNZ website. I notice that comments to Denis's posts now appear on his personal blogsite but not on TTNZ. No surprises there then. Why would an intellectual heavyweight like Susan Krumdiek want to be associated with a site that is saturated with Woo-Woo? for that matter, why would the average Kiwi looking for guidance insult their own intelligence by bothering to revisit these pages?
I don't care if it's your intention to degrade or subvert this forum but the fact is you are Trolling whether you see it that way or not. Surely there must be some other place where you can meet with like-minded people? Try Zeitgeists forum!
I do not intend to give this subject any further engagement.

Andrew
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Joined: 9 Dec 2009
Seems a few people doing this in different ways

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJQKg9CRJc&feature=fvwrel

Andrew
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Joined: 9 Dec 2009
Another water powered car

I'm glad these guys have not heard yet that they doing supposedly can't be done, Its good to see more people unaware of the "science" that says this does not work, but no real surprise when according to science a bumblebee should not be able to fly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFa5P1duxoY&feature=channel_video_title

Science
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Joined: 23 May 2011
Just for the record, Bees can

Just for the record, Bees can fly - and science understands how !
http://www.livescience.com/528-scientists-finally-figure-bees-fly.html

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